The November election is a long ways away. So, here: my pal Matt made you a little cheatsheet!
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The universe is mostly hydrogen and ignorance
The November election is a long ways away. So, here: my pal Matt made you a little cheatsheet!
Not sure what to think about this one. The NY Times and the WSJ differ in their opinions about this bill. This is normal, they are idealogical opposites. But they also differ on its content. Wired says the WSJ is full of crap, that there is no debate over international calls routed through the US. They can be monitored without a warrant. The problem is international calls TO the US. I’m not sure what the big deal about abiding by the law is. Just get a warrant. If the warrant process is too slow, make it faster.
Interesting, though, that both Hillary and Obama missed this vote. I expect it from Hillary. Sadly, I expect it from Obama as well, who missed more votes in the Senate than any other senator. According to him it’s ‘normal’ and all part of ‘strategy’ when trying to get things done. Fair enough. But I thought this guy was above beltway bullsh*t? I thought he was the messiah? I’ve seen posters for this guy in Gracia with the word ‘HOPE’ next to his picture. Jeez louise, is all it takes to be a saviour to not be Bush? Someone so amazing should be able to rise above petty politics and take a stand, no?
Anyway, methinks I seez holes in the façade:
http://blog.nam.org/archives/2008/02/governmentdefin.php
Don’t like that one bit. Doesn’t everyone hate the ‘Patriot Act’? And the very fact that W decides who is a patriot or not, based on if they are behind him or not, pretty unpalatable, no? So here comes Obama saying he (the federbal gov’t) has the right to decide which companies are ‘patriotic’. BS man. The more things change …
I’m sorry you were so quick to jump to conclusions without checking your facts, Mr. Bob. You have been unfair to our next president. You’re correct in that Clinton was one of only two senators who chose to sit this vote out, but the other one was NOT Obama. The other coward was Republican senator and Bushophile Lindsey Graham. Please click on the image and read how Obama one of 31 to do the right thing and vote in favor of Dodd’s amendment to strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to telecom companies that *illegally* bent over for W and spied on innocent Americans without the needed warrant. That, my friend, is bullsh*t.
Hmm .. where are you getting your info from? According to the US Senate page, Obama did NOT vote:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00020
In short:
Not Voting – 3
Clinton (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Obama (D-IL)
Illinois:
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Obama (D-IL), Not Voting
Again, I know Obama has come out against this bill. He often comes out in favor or against many bills. And then … he doesn’t vote.
Is this cynical positioning, from Mr. ‘Audacity of Hope’, so that further on down the road when he (hopefully) comes up against McCain, he can be all wishy-washy double-talky like Hillary was, for example, with drivers licenses for illegals? (I support it but I didn’t say I support it!!!). I dunno.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy. But it seems he ain’t above playing by the beltway rules when the chips are down.
All of which makes him … just like every other politician.
Nice duds .. Speaks well. Young and handsome. Great. But those aren’t accomplishments. I have yet to be shown that there is any substance to his rhetoric.
And that ‘patriotic companies’ nonsense is bullsh*t.
Emperor’s new clothes, yada-yada.
Now I see the problem! There are various bills. One is the FISA bill itself, the others are amendments.
The link in the image is to ‘strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.’
So he didn’t vote on the FISA bill but DID on the amendment. Got it.
Anywayz, I think the FISA bill itself is the problem. They should clear up exactly WHO can be spied on without a warrant. And domestic calls should of course be excluded.
Once that’s done I think telco’s should have immunity.
But what the hell do I know?
You are correct, there have been many votes on many amendments. This link may clear things up for you:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Senate_OKs_immunity_for_telecoms_0212.html
Allow me to play you a snippet:
“Sens. Barack Obama (D-IL) and John McCain (R-AZ) took some time from campaigning for Tuesday’s slate of “Potomac Primaries” in Maryland, Virginia and Washington to swing by the Capitol and vote on the amendments. Obama voted for the amendments to strip immunity from the bill, while McCain opposed the amendments and voted in favor of keeping immunity.
Hillary Clinton did not vote on the immunity issue at all, although she was in Washington at least part of the day Tuesday, competing in the same primaries as Obama and McCain.”
And this was the point of my initial post.
Don’t be so glum!
I am sure Hillary was for immunity before she was against it before she had no opinion of it!